NMO and Occupation order
Posted By: Daniela on 03/01/2023 at 09:36
Hi Suzie. Happy New Year.
I showed my relationship history to a Mackenzie friend (they are people who help with court stuff and can come for moral support) and she thinks i will not get NMO or Occup order granted based on the abuse …. it’s not “bad” enough if you know what i mean…. and i have to prove i am at risk of “significant harm” if the judge does not grant the order… what that means…no one knows…
I’m so stuck again… i think i have no choice but to go with a solicitor.
When you have time with your son, and your ex-husband has chosen to squat in your flat, where he has no valud right to be, and that causes your son to scream, then I would record that because it’s clear that your exes behaviour is causing your son distress. But since you have a squatter in your home, you need to be able to lock your door. If your child screams that does not mean he’s in any physical harm. He’s probably just screaming because he knows his dad is the other side of the door, and he’s learnt that if he screams, he gets to go and be with his dad. it’s a problem, that’s been created by the current situation and complete lack of boundaries. If your ex husband is affectively causing your son to scream through his presence in the house, then that is just yet another of a multitude of reasons why he needs to move out as quickly as possible because he’s causing direct distress to your son.
Email from my solicitor: " In relation to the criteria for a Non-Molestation Order, a Judge will have to be satisfied that you or a minor child, i.e. B, are at risk of harm if the order is not made. In most cases, the way to get around it is to see if ex will agree to provide an undertaking, i.e., a legal promise, that he will not harass or pester you or B. A Judge will also be mindful of the fact that given the current situation, B is subject to emotional harm. For an Occupation Order, it is often harder to obtain but, in your case, the Tenancy Agreement is in your sole name and there is, therefore, no reason why ex should not vacate the property. A court would balance the harm that is likely to be caused to you and B if an Occupation Order is not made against the harm that ex will incur if the order is made and weigh up who is likely to suffer the most harm. A Judge will also have regard to each of your financial circumstances and, in your case, the fact that the Tenancy Agreement is in your sole name and that ex has a family in the country albeit four hours away whereas you do not. Moreover, if the court did make an order for him to vacate the property, he may be entitled to council housing. The aim of the letter is to persuade ex for the moment to vacate the property and therefore my view is that we should keep the letter. The only amendment I have made is to make clear that his parents live four hours away. " I have agreed to her sending the letter as suggested.
I didn't pay for that advise. It was a Mackenzie friend that i sent her my relationship history to prepare to fill in the NMO order ready for me to submit. And she said it will most likely not be granted. But I think she missed some details that i didn't manage to tell her beforehand. I will go with the solicitor letter, and keep the NMO order in the letter. I know 100% that he will not move.... that's why i was planning to have the NMO and Occup order forms ready to submit. I would need some help in writing the exceptions when ex is allowed to enter my room. I would like one with the key on the outside also. If it's my time with our son and I lock the door, and son starts screaming for daddy, do I tell ex in advance that if he tries to come in I will call the police? (Do i include this in the rules for my room?) Can you help me with this, please?
Technically you already have the legal right to not have your ex husband living in your flat, but by getting a occupation order you have a court order proving you have the right to be there and that will make you landlords feel safe to change the locks. You can apply for the order via the Citizens Advice Bureau. You don’t need your solicitor for that unless you’ve already paid for her to submit it for you or you prefer her to do that as well as your initial letter to your spouse. The court will consider your circumstances, your ex-partner's and any children living there to decide who should be allowed to stay in your home. That person will be you. An occupation order usually only lasts for 6 months. But by then - the locks have changed and he won’t get an Occupation Order granted as he has no legal right to be in your flat. He is squatting.
Who advised you to remove the NMO info from the letter? Not the solicitor, whose advice you are paying for? Why do you think the Occupation Order will not get granted? You have the law on your side. It’s straightforward but slow. I don’t understand why you pay for solicitor advice and then decide to do completely different things based on I don’t know what reasoning? If you’re generally concerned about your safety then you’ll put a lock on your door and you will call the police if there’s any problem, at which point, they are likely to put in place an order preventing him from entering the property. Why are you making this into such a drama? It’s almost as if you want to keep it all going on and on. Ask yourself why you would not send the letter as advised by the solicitor when it’s a letter that lays out actions that you may or may not want to pursue? He can never legally claim that you never told him about any of those actions if you should need to pursue them, if he has received that solicitors letter. Why are you making things so complicated unnecessarily? I would recommend that you send the letter as it was because that’s what the solicitor recommends and you’ve paid her for that advice, and she knows better than you or I how best to deal with the situation legally. You don’t need to then use her and pay loads of money to go to court if court ever becomes necessary. You just need her to send the letter. You then need to be able to prove that he’s received the letter. As we discussed. The courts will then proceed with the occupation order and getting him to move out - which is where the solicitor can help you submit the relevant forms to the court. If he behaves badly, then you will need to put in place a non-molestation order and the solicitor can tell you what to put in it. Or it may be a simple as the police deciding to do it if they see that his behaviour is unreasonable and aggressive. Put a lock on your bedroom door and make it very clear in writing to him that it is not a space he can come into. I know you were talking about times when he could because it’s also where your son sleeps, but if you wanna make it more complicated then go ahead but make sure that those rules are laid out clear as day. I would even put them up on the wall on a chart in writing to make sure there is no way that he is not aware of where the boundaries are. However - The simplest route of course is to simply put a lock on both side of the door and he doesn’t go in that room anymore. That would be the most logical straightforward Solution and give you some actual privacy. And also a safe space. Sorry if I sound frustrated, but it is as if we have a conversation and then you decide to come up with some other issue out of the air for a problem that doesn’t actually exist. Send the letter as it was written Because you need to legally inform him of your intentions and if you want to put a non-molestation order in place later you’ll just have to pay for another solicitors letter when you could’ve already done it. No one is forcing you to then pursue that route if he does what he’s supposed to do. It’s a boundary. Something that you really need to learn to put in place if you’re going to have a future sensible and clear co parenting relationship. It’s your decision but I really urge you to stick to the plan and get your money’s worth from the solicitors advice, as she knows how the courts work and her letter is providing a clear communication to your husband AND the basis of any further action required should he not move out.
Thanks. What is the legal process that gets him evicted? If I'm there to pay the rent and all bills.... no one will evict him. If he's good as gold....you think i can live under same roof forever? Or what shall I do? I can tell you now, that he will NOT move until a judge will tell him so. That's why i wanted to apply for NMO and Occup order...as I know for sure he will not move.... As the order may not be granted, I was advised to remove the wording of NMO from the letter as it may make him more abusive ....then what? it will make our co-parenting even worse? I am so very confused.... I have emailed the solicitor to send the letter but then i asked her to amend it to remove the NMO orders....
The intention as I understood it was that the reason you would be going to court would only be because he refuses to leave and makes life difficult. For example, if he's removing the lock you put on your door et cetera. It is completely unreasonable and in fact abusive to remain in someone's flat when they don't want you there. The solicitor is there to give you advice and to send the initial letter. That's it at this point. You don't have enough at the moment to go to court, because you haven't actually even told your husband as far as I'm aware that he should leave! If he doesn't prevent you from having your own space in the flat or privacy and doesn't interfere with your time with your son, and behaves as good as gold, then you'll need to wait until the legal process gets him evicted. The non-molestation order is there, I thought, as a sensible backup in case he behaves badly and inappropriately. It doesn't make any sense to randomly pursue that until there is a reason to do, so he only has to push the door in once and break that lock or remove it to be overstepping the boundaries enough to warrant requesting a non-molestation order. Have you put a lock on your bedroom door and told him in writing that he must not come in your room as we discussed? If there are exceptions - are they very very clear? The point is Daniela, if he thinks he's going to be taken to court for a non-molestation order if he behaves badly, hopefully he won't behave badly and you won't need to go to court. However, if he does behave badly, then you can self represent in court and maybe even the police will just do the job for you and you can avoid court altogether. The letter (is it being sent yet?) is to lay at key information in a way that he can’t legally pretend he didn’t know. After that you can self represent if needed - but you seem obsessed with going to court about a non-molestation order. When so far you haven’t even told him that he needs to leave the flat. So just stick to the plan. Don’t stress about stuff that might not even happen and where you absolutely don’t need to pay thousands of pounds and use a solicitor.
She said the average cost for an NMO with 1 hearing is around £2000-2500 via solicitor.