Divorce Group Chat

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Thank you. I did not put this in the shared diary... but i just texted ex.

Daniela


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Hoping our call put you on a clearer path of action Paul. I recommend that you create the draft co-parenting plan in dTour.Life based on right now; 3 years time; and then when your child is 6 or 7. If you need some support, I'm sure Jenni Rock will be able to help. I realise that right now you have some legal issues to contend with, but the sooner you have that draft plan, the sooner you have an evidenced clear suggestion for a court to consider.

Suzy Miller
Hi Paul, I am the 'coparenting with a toxic ex' specialist. My honest answer is that we never give up, but we learn how to manage the expectations and emotions around this situation. Your baby girl is going to grow up and wonder why you gave up, and that will shape her opinion on men along with whatever her mother tells her. I would love to have a chat with you to see if I can help you to cope with this and maintain your vital position in her life as her father. You can book for a chat on my scheduling link <a href="https://calendly.com/jennirock1/coparenting-without-conflict" target="_blank">https://calendly.com/jennirock1/coparenting-without-conflict</a>

Jenni Rock
This may not have been clear - it isn\'t walking away from the relationship with my ex, but with the relationship with my 16 month old daughter. I live in the US, my ex has now gone and file a court order on me, limiting the amount of time I can spend with my daughter when I come to the UK. I was hoping we could sort things out in mediation, she would not compromise on a lot of things that I was advised are unreasonable. Then she proceeded to refuse to commit to arbitration and stalled for months. Now after the order, which is supposedly based on the fear I would take her out of the UK for half the year (which is impossible anyway as she doesn't have American citizenship as her mother will not allow me to file for her). My ex will not talk, and when she reads exchanges, she simply responds based on how things feel or what she fears - even though I may not have suggested anything along the lines of what she is responding to. She has misunderstood my offers and requests repeatedly and spins them into harmful things which I would never do - like taking my daughter out of the country without her mother's permission. I'm at a loss and at the point where I feel like even if we went to court, I'm dealing with someone who is so detached from reality, it will be 18 years of torture that will be harmful for my ex, for me, but particularly my daughter. I've run out of steam after almost 6 months of obstacles, stagnation, and obfuscation. Does anyone have any encouraging words or wise counsel about knowing when to stop? It would be so much easier if my daughter was 6-7 because I know she would ask questions and drive some practicality in everything.

Paul Turner


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I remember going through this during my divorce, having a specialist that can help with sharing the load and finding solutions is a resource that I wish that I had been able to access at that time. I am so glad that this kind of support is available now!

Jenni Rock


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Paul, if you cant get your ex to agree to anything, then you may be forced to go down the legal route and get a contact order formalised, but I would suggest that you get a professional legal opinion first. Go to the experts section and pick a UK lawyer to have a discussion with. Once the legal situation is clarified, then it comes down to how you are positioning these issues emotionally. For the sake of your wellbeing and peace, it needs to be dealt with before it turns into a festering mess that takes over your life. I have commented on your other post with a link to schedule a chat. Please find some time to talk with me so that I can help you with this.

Jenni Rock
Suzy et al, what do you do about these agreements when a parenting agreement isn't in place because the other parent won't agree to one? E.g. I'm supposed to have FaceTime with my daughter 3x a week - I wanted more but was refused - I miss at least one of those each week because of it is just overlooked. At least one of the remaining 2x, I have to call and text repeatedly over 20-30 min to try to have someone pick up the phone.

Paul Turner
Firstly, I would ask that question of your Ex - let him come up with some 'consequences' and give them due consideration. But go in prepared with your own suggestions. Make sure that your record any suggested changes to the parenting plan and how you have rejected them (eg. you gave). Keep a record of everything. If he changes his mind about when to pick up/be there when his child arrives - that means he doesn't see his child if he ignores what was agreed. You will just stick to the plan. If he changes it, or you change it - the other parent just sticks to what was originally agreed and records the outcome (eg. parent not at pick up point). If the plan isn't working for one of you, then that parent can pay for mediation and the other parent must attend so that the agreement can be altered if it was not possible to agree in advance (eg. change of plan due to change in working hours). Though hopefully those kind of changes can be agreed without further mediation and recorded in the plan. Never agree anything just verbally. Always put it in the plan and the other parent must CONFIRM. For consequences, you could consider simply having '3 strikes and you're out - so if one parent ignores the agreement in the coparenting plan (brings child back later than agreed/not available at pickup etc) - then the plan becomes null and void until a mediation can be held to make adjustments. You could choose to agree a 'worse case' backup agreement so that in such a situation, at least your child has some access (eg. Every second Saturday) - until the rest of the plan is discussed and re-agreed upon. Whoever is causing the changes should be responsible for paying for further mediation. So there is: 1/ One of us wants to make changes the other doesn't agree with. So the parent wanting to make changes pays for mediation and the other agrees to attend to resolve this and potentially (but not necessarily) update the parenting plan. 2/ One of us keeps breaking the agreement. The other formally warns them IN WRITING. 3/ 3 breaches of the agreement: Go to the basic level (eg. Every other Saturday) until the situation is resolved via mediation or arbitration. 4/ The other parent just won't co-operate. Try to have the basic level (unless the parent is refusing to return the child or completely making contact unreasonable) and bring in an arbitrator to agree on a legally binding co-parenting agreement, with defined contact orders etc if required. This are just suggestions - start with setting up each of the 4 scenarios and seeing what your Ex suggests FIRST. Then take it from there. I do recommend a basic level agreed though so your child doesn't lose out if things get tricky.

Suzy Miller


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Rebecca and I connected through email and she was very kind. A fairly full schedule though. We weren't able to use her as my ex wouldn't commit to arbitration.

Paul Turner
A request - for everyone to put some info into their profiles (see pinned post at the top) otherwise I can’t see who is posting a comment!

Suzy Miller
Thanks so much Suzy. Emailing her now.

That sounds like an amazing resource to have in the team! I will look forward to connecting with Rebecca soon!

Jenni Rock


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You already have a schedule agreed and you stick to that. If either of you break the schedule - what happens then? Surely you have discussed this? One option is to allow one or two hiccups - and then end the agreement and apply for a defined contact order. Ask the mediators guidance. But you must include in the plan what to do if one parent just takes the piss. Your ex and son will not benefit from no contact until a court decides so messing about is less likely to be the chosen option.

Suzy Miller
Thanks for the advise. I will try to stick to the schedule. But what if he now says : "No, I want to spend 2 hrs with our son" and he goes to school to pick him up, because it's his bday?

Daniela
I realise that you wanted to be nice, but in fact what you’ve done is just make things more confusing. You really need to just set some clear boundaries for both of you to stick to before you start doing nice little adjustments. You’re just not in that space yet. Keep it simple and straightforward and clear. Every time you offer to change something you’re opening the door for him to do the same. Perhaps you might want to just apologise to him for making things confusing and reiterate that you stick to what you’ve already agreed, and you don’t change it for anything unless there’s something like illness or other circumstances that you have already made provision for. And then agree to come back in a few months time to make any adjustments once you’ve both build that trust together.

Suzy Miller
We agreed to a schedule for school time and school holidays. And I brought up our bdays as it's at the end of April and i wanted to be nice to him and get him to spend 2 hrs with our son on his bday even though it is my time with our son. But he actually wants more than 2hrs... What shall i do? Shall i not give him any time with our son on that day then? (is that unreasonable from me, because it's his bday?)

Daniela
So it sounds like you’ve agreed a schedule, but because it’s his birthday your ex wants to change the schedule? It sounds very complicated. It makes sense to just stick to the schedule that you agreed and after a period of time with both of you adhering strictly to the schedule and building up trust between you, then maybe you can talk about Additional changes, but for now you just wanna agree on the basics and stick to that. Especially if he’s not been respecting the existing schedule fully. It’s time to complete the mediation and then maybe agree to a further mediation in three months time, whereupon you can see how well he’s been sticking to it before you discuss any other changes? Put in boundaries, and give him the incentive to stick to what he’s agreed to.

Suzy Miller


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Re your text (better to communicate in here) what someone ‘says’ is not proof. Not without a witness. It’s just your say so which isn’t going to allow the police to prosecute combined with the lack of evidence. If you have evidence - then after you’ve finished the mediation (soon) then if he will not return the images, you could consider going to the police. But not if you don’t have clear evidence. By all means ask them - but it seems unnecessary to mess up the mediation so close to completion. Unless there is a real risk of harm by waiting? As for what he tells your son. You have no control over that. Build a trusting relationship with your child where he can openly share what his dad says without you showing anger or upset (yes - it’s hard - but don’t try to argue or justify yourself to your child. Don’t put him in the middle of a disagreement.) You can simply ask how he feels about what he’s told and answer his questions honestly. Share your memory of what happened - if he asks. Jenni can help you with this. It’s tough. My kids only heard their dads (limited) version of what happened to us until they were in their 20s. When they asked me about it. Until then, it was not appropriate to try and make them think critically of their father’s behaviour - so it was never discussed until they asked about it. Every family is different. But children of any age should not be put in the middle of two parents trying to make them believe different versions of events. It’s just not fair to them. That’s my personal opinion. You need to decide for yourself. When you put your ego in a drawer and focus on your child’s needs - it becomes clear what to do and actually is not as hard as you might think to do. The question to ask yourself is: Do I want to be right? Or do I want to be happy!?

Suzy Miller
Trust me, he can jeopardise the other person's job.... it's a job type that is affected by this kind of info. And it can be very distressing for those images to go online (it's described in the gov doc i shared you info from) The threats don't have to be in writting as per info i see from gov. But he mentioned in writting to my friend what he found in my files. I don't physically know where the pics are but he took the laptop back to his mum and bought a new one since then. Jenni said if i decide to tell the police and ex goes to jail, it would be ok to explain to our son in age appropriate way as to why this has happened. But just to take time and think about it after my emotions calm down. What do you think?

Daniela
Re his threats - can he really jeopardise the other person’s job? How could that be? Yes it’s horrible when someone invaded your privacy like that - but how do you know he hasn’t deleted it all? Unless you know where the images are and can be very specific to the police why it would be distressing for those to be shared online - plus you have evidence (written) that he has those images and has threatened to share them - what can the police actually do? Don’t waste your energy on this unless you can take decisive action. It’s just mental bullying. What would Ruth say?! Or Jenni? Re the passport. You have made a reasonable compromise. If he doesn’t like it - then until he does - who has the passport? You - right? So what’s the problem here? Make sure that the record of the mediation agreement INCLUDES what you didn’t agree on, and what compromises/workarounds you suggested and he then refused. If he goes to court a judge will immediately see that he’s being unreasonable. Think of the mediation agreement as part boundary setting/practical agreements and part a document t of how reasonable you have been. I doubt he will ever take you to court - but make sure if he does, that the report clearly shows how reasonable and fair you have been.

Suzy Miller
Hi Suzy. He did mention it to me and called me horrible names because of that, he showed pictures to his mum (as i heard them talking on the phone about a pic of me) and wrote a letter to my friend mentioning about the info he found. He harrassed me multiple occasions about this and threaten to jeopardise the other person's job. So what do i do? Do i tell police about this? He is refusing to let a 3rd party look after our son's passport (he said this in mediation).... he said he does not trust anyone to look after it and he is adamant he wants to share it 50/50 with me.

Daniela
Hi Daniela I’m sure we discussed this a while ago. We already know it’s not legal to steal someone’s personal information on their phone/computer. You imply that he is using it as revenge - but has he actually even mentioned it / admitted to it / made any threats in writing? If not - and unless you have proof of where the information would be - it would be difficult for the police to do much. And what would you gain? You are trying to co-parent with this man. Re. Your voicemail - this situation has absolutely nothing to do with your child’s access to his father. The passport can be kept with a trusted third party (a solicitor would work but there would be a fee) - as we discussed. Until trust is earned. I recommend you stay focused on getting some ground rules in place in the mediation. If he messes about re co-parenting in the future, you will be able to demonstrate that he has broken his agreement if you have to use the courts. If you can’t agree on something - find a compromise (like the third party holding onto the passport). Focus on your son’s need for two parents who both love him. Do things that bring you joy, as one happy stable parent is enough to provide some emotional security for your child. Be that parent! I know it’s tough. You are doing so well. But don’t let the mediation be his way to keep interacting with you. He needs to agree on what he can and then use the parenting plan/calendar - not keep dragging you back into mediation. Set a deadline.

Suzy Miller


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Welcome Jenni! And here is the link to your website if people want to know more: <a href="https://coparentingwithoutconflict.com/" target="_blank">https://coparentingwithoutconflict.com/</a>

Suzy Miller


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Hoorah! Looking forward to hearing all about it in the next Meetup!

Suzy Miller
By the way, thanks to Joanne from Mediation, the co-parenting schedule for pick ups and drop offs went ok so far.

Daniela
Hi Suzy. I've moved!!!! I'm out!!! Finally. The move was ok overall... some interference from ex (i'll tell you in the meetup) but with the communication tools i've learnt from Ruth and Jenni and you, i managed to keep calm and firm. (My friend lost it a bit though ???♀️) I managed to take out the things i wanted, which is great. Thanks again and can't wait to talk to you for the full story... ?

Daniela
How is it going Daniela? Have you moved?

Suzy Miller


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Thanks Suzy. It went great in the end.... thanks to mediation and Jenni and you. I'll tell you the story on zoom.

Daniela


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Thank you so much. She said she is just wind up because of ex and his mum and what they are doing... But you are right, she did go through a lot with her narc sister so maybe this is triggering for her without realising it. I told her i appreciate she is concerned for me but i have to loose this battle to win the war. Thank you Suzy, for being my rational brain and holding my hand through this. I kinda knew what your answer would be.... as i learnt so much from you... but i just wanted to check that i needed to let this one go.... Thank you

Daniela

Remember - you can keep your profile ‘anonymous’ with no photo added or a picture of your cat. You can change your name to be just your first name or initials. But this is a safe space - it’s not like a Facebook group - it’s on my website and only subscribers to the Secret Divorce Group can access it.
Suzy Miller